The "Master" list..

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Re: The "Master" list..

Postby tygerbug » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:36 pm

To be fair I told you that I was doing it a while back via YouTube mail. Just looked and it was 15/02/2010. I informed you that I was using your Maxtible and Waterfield heads. I also told you I would not show it to anyone for this very reason (and I haven't, except for one person).


Wait, WHAT? You were working with my heads all this time and you don't even tell me? And you would rather show no one what you've done than show me? And possibly do something I might actually approve?

Is it really so hard to animate 20 seconds of footage and show it to me, so that I can see if you're on the right track or not?

This is really frustrating, Martin. Yes, you messaged me, once, an entire year ago. I wrote back with some basic information on how the heads are supposed to be animated. And that was it.

I WANT people to work with my heads, if they have basic technical skills and will show me what they're doing as they do it so that I can be of help, and get you working toward a useful goal, where any work that's not up to standard can be fixed and done right.

That's why I created them, so that people could work together as a community rather than one guy, and create something actually good. A full half hour shouldn't be animated by one guy, and certainly to do any significant amount of episodes it should be more than one guy working on it.

To go it alone in this way is insulting to me and misses the point.

Well, what's done is done, but now is the point where you send me whatever you've done, Martin, as well as information on which programs you used. I'll let you know what I think of it, and if even one or two shots show any technical skill at all, I'll give you the praise you deserve.

tygerbug at yahoo .

I'm assuming that you only used my Maxtible and Waterfield heads, probably not even the animatable versions, and used other material for other stuff, which sounds like a huge mess. You could have done bits of episode 7 and been of real assistance if you'd done it right.

You spent all the time to apparently do an entire episode no one would see, rather than spend the same amount of time learning to do a few scenes the right way, which could be integrated into an acceptable final product.




this is just .... this is all just so ..... [sigh]
Last edited by tygerbug on Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The "Master" list..

Postby Colonel Barker » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:48 pm

If it helps Tygerbug, he does quite a good job using your characters. Not all the animation poses certainly. But gives them quite a bit of life.
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Re: The "Master" list..

Postby martinscotchmore » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:49 pm

Dear Tygerbug,

Back in 2007 or 2008 I showed you my Moonbase 1 and you didn't like it. You gave me some good advice, which I appreciated and put to some use. In fact you may remember that the only reason I put it on YouTube was so you could see if I was good enough to join your club, and I wasn't. I was a bit disappointed I admit, since I thought I had finally met someone to help me animate old Dr Who episodes, but at the same time I wasn't too bothered because I was happy with what I had done.

Then in 2010 (a full 2 years later) I decided to animate Evil 1, and I told you that I was using your heads to make a cartoon for myself. By reading your posts I get the impression that you do not really like people using your heads unless you have a large degree of creative control over the finished product. Whilst I do not dislike your animations, I do not want to emulate them, and am not prepared to cede any creativity (I hope you can respect this). However I think your heads are really nicely drawn, far better than any of my own efforts, so I decided to use them and as a courtesy I let you know. I'm surprised you are insulted by this, and not sure why you seem surprised when this should not be news to you.

A couple of months ago, Colonel Barker emailed me and we ended up discussing animations, and I showed him Moonbase 3 and Evil 1. (Evil 3 is still only about two-thirds complete so no one as seen it except me.) No one else has seen it. I can show you if you like but there's no point since I know you won't like it (because it not done in your style and because to my knowledge you have not liked anyone else's efforts) and I have no plans to change it.

I mean no disrespect and hope this is clear. If I ever become proficient enough at artwork I will go back to Evil 1 and change all of the faces to my own drawings.

When I started this I had no idea how political it would get. Frankly if anyone wants to use any of my pictures they are welcome to them, but I suppose not everyone feels that way. To borrow your terminology, not everyone thinks his/her own track is the 'right' track. And frankly you insult me when you say I haven't been doing it 'right'.

Martin
Last edited by martinscotchmore on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The "Master" list..

Postby tygerbug » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:04 pm

Is it wrong that I take a tiny bit of pride in my work? Every single WhoSprite head took over a week to create and the project overall involved two straight years of incredibly hard work. There is a "right" way to use them, and I have the right to define that since I created the heads.

Every head has about 30 alternate mouths and many alternate eye areas, and it does take a certain amount of skill to use all of them properly.

It's not an impossible thing I'm asking here. It's simple enough, with a little effort, to someone with basic film editing skills, or indeed anything approaching any kind of animation skill at all.

I've had people who have submitted very short tests and done just fine at it. [Most people who are good enough to do it would rather work on their own projects, and that's sad for me, though more power to them.]

They're my artwork, and if they're used in a laughably bad way by anyone it's me who's going to be judged, and I'm going to look like an idiot.

So to recap:

What you did on The Moonbase was this:

Image
Image
Image

You cut out a few heads from The Invasion and pasted them awkwardly on photos. You didn't use the full set of mouth phonemes; the heads just flap open and closed.

It's so simple that anyone with any competence could do a version of that - for an entire episode - in a matter of minutes. Copy/paste.

You deserve credit for doing it, but not a full parade.

I don't have unrealistic expectations for my sprites, but all you've shown so far is that you can flap a mouth open and closed, not work with 30 different mouth positions.

If you were applying to a job at a professional animation house, you would have to show that you can produce work of reasonable quality.

It would not be unreasonable for them to ask to submit a reel of relevant work, and expect some basic skill from the applicant. You wouldn't get annoyed and go on a five-paragraph rant about it.

And at an animation house you would be hired to work on a specific project, under those with more experience than you. You wouldn't  say "i doan't wanna give up any craetive control" and go off and do your own little whatever using their proprietary Squarepants characters or whatnot. You'd be working toward a real goal of a product that could be released and look professional. Frankly you should be grateful if someone who can draw and has some basic animation skill is giving you the time of day, if it turns out you can work together.

But you wouldn't submit to a professional animation house, because you know you can't run with those dogs. You're hesitant to show what you've done to me for the same reason, even though my standards are far lower.

I want you to show it to me anyway, since you've gone and done it.

That's gilchristgarrett at gmail dot com.

You only wrote me about it once a year ago, then are surprised at my surprise. I get enough letters from people with more enthusiasm than talent and spelling skills. Not a lot, but enough.

At the very least you've got enthusiasm and spelling skills, and that counts for something.

I am DESPERATE to find even vaguely competent people to do work on Whosprites. And I'm sure I'll find a few one of these days. But responding to this sort of post is a really depressing thing to do.
Last edited by tygerbug on Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The "Master" list..

Postby martinscotchmore » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:41 pm

I only did these as a bit of fun, a hobby if you will, and no one is going to see them apart from me and maybe my family and friends. I have no plans to go professional and run with those dogs (or indeed any dogs). I wish I had never used your heads now and one day I'll change them, but I did use them, and told you I was doing it just in case you ever found out any other way. I had no idea it would upset you this much, and I'm sorry for any offence caused. Rest assured I won't do it again.
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Re: The

Postby phallyka » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:07 pm

She must have finished virtually all of part one by now!?


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